Navigating Loneliness in Military Life and Beyond

In this powerful podcast episode, Mari Williams interviews Cara Cunniff, a former British military officer and endurance athlete, who shares her profound experience of feeling lonely while surrounded by other military spouses during her husband's deployment to Iraq. 

The conversation explores the challenges of emotional connection, the importance of self-worth, and how small acts of kindness can transform personal isolation. Cara discusses her journey of finding strength in solitude, developing emotional intelligence, and ultimately creating meaningful connections in both personal and professional life.

About Cara:

Cara is a leadership and performance consultant and the founder of The Workplace Experience Project. She specialises in unlocking teamwork potential through the development of strong workplace emotional cultures—the powerful force that drives connection, collaboration, and sustainable performance.

 Having lived and worked in international communities across Paris, Germany, Belgium, and the USA, Cara has developed a deep appreciation for how shared emotions and experiences transcend borders, foster understanding, and strengthen relationships. 

Her global perspective, combined with her time as a British Army Officer specialising in Psychological Operations (PsyOps), gives her unique insight into how emotions influence behaviour and drive meaningful change—through hearts and minds. 

As an endurance athlete—having competed in Ironman triathlons and multi-day Sahara Desert ultra-marathons—Cara understands first-hand how emotions shape performance: on the track, in leadership, and across organisations. She believes that when leaders harness organisational emotional culture as a strategic tool, they unlock trust, deepen connection, and create the conditions for teams to thrive.

Cara has partnered with organisations like Pfizer Pharmaceuticals, HMRC, and The Wellbeing Revolution to deliver transformative learning experiences that drive growth, resilience, and engagement.

You can connect with Cara on LinkedIn

You can help Mari with her research by taking the Alone and Rising questionnaire here

https://aloneandrisingquestionnaire.scoreapp.com/

Transcript

0:04

Welcome to the Alone and Rising Podcast. I'm Mari Williams, the Mind Architect, author of it begins with you, and I'm currently writing my new book, Alone and Rising. I've spent my entire life on the journey to being happy alone. It's been so transformational that I want to inspire you to do the same. This isn't about being single, but about creating a strong internal sense of self worth to make powerful decisions from. My guests and I will share our personal stories of how we became happy, alone and rising. Welcome to the Alone and Rising podcast. My name is Mari Williams, the Mind Architect, and I'm your host. Today's guest is Cara Cunniff. She has served time as a British Officer specialising in psychological operations. This has given her a unique insight into how emotions influence behaviour and drive meaningful change. Cara has come on to discuss her experience in loneliness as a military spouse when her husband was first deployed to Iraq. She is also an endurance athlete, and has completed an Ironman and multi day Sahara desert ultra marathons. She understands, first hand, how emotions shape the performance that she has. She has taken this knowledge into her own company, Thrive Well Global where she works with team culture. Cara, thank you so much for agreeing to come on the podcast. I really appreciate you coming on to share your personal journey. What was the moment where you felt the most alone and you realised that you know it was a problem? I think one of the times where I felt most alone and was surprised about it was during a period when my husband, my husband's in the military, and looking back, well, a few years ago now, but 2002 and it was the Iraq invasion, and I was living in Maidstone, and I was surrounded by military wives and most of our partners, and I will say mostly men, because at the time it was there were more men deploying than there were females. Yes, there were females deploying, of course, but to give you context, that I was then living within a military base where it was predominantly females left. And at the time I was working, and I remember the evening when the wheels rolled out of camp, and it was all of the vehicles heading down to, oh gosh, sorry, forgive me. It has caught me. The wheels had, the wheels had, had left camp, and they'd roll, they were rolling down to Kent, to sorry, to the port. And we were in Kent, and they were, they were rolling down to the ferry ports. And, you know, there were tanks, and there were four tunners, and there were, there were Land Rovers, and suddenly what was left was a quiet. A quiet, unlike, gosh do you know this has really caught me, because I don't go there very often to that space. But there was a quiet Are you ok to record Yes, yes, absolutely fine. There was a quiet in the camp that was just eerie, eerie quiet, and we knew that we had no contact with our spouses then, until they then were able to contact us. We didn't know when the invasion would take place. We were watching the BBC News. We were watching sky just the same as everybody else cross country, and there was no information. And the night of the invasion, where we were expecting it to happen, where we. And at this time, we didn't know if it was our husbands who were were going to be moving into to to Iraq in that moment. So we're watching the news. And I took my dog out for a little walk late at night, and I wandered around the camp, and in every single house, there was one light up in what would have been the bedroom. And I can say that because most military houses are the same. So I would I you knew that. And there was also a flicker, flicker from each bedroom, which meant that all of those people living in those houses were watching the news to find out when you know the invasion was going to take place. Now you'd imagine that that would be a time where it brought people together, where we would feel this. This, this sort of cohesiveness and this team and this, you know, belonging, because we were all experiencing the same moment. But for me, I didn't experience that. What I experienced was all the spouses, you know, if you were to ask the question, How are you, we'd all say, Oh, I'm absolutely fine. I'm great, I'm good, I'm I'm I'm, you know, I'm doing well, but behind closed doors, maybe to our mums or to a sibling, you know, that's where the tears would flow, because we didn't know what was happening. And I think you know, just to add another sort of context, emotional context here, when, when your partner deploys, you have to relook at all your wills again. You have to you know that they have written the letter to you in the event that they don't return home. And so, you know, the emotional journey that we'd all been on right up until that point. I mean, it was it was vast. It was just vast. And so again, the surprise for me was I believed I would be in this place of belonging, and yet I felt so unbelievably isolated, so emotionally alone, because I didn't feel that I could share what was really going on for me. And I think maybe we all felt that because we didn't want to burden those other people who were, you know, the other spouses, who have children who, you know, get up every day and take their kids to school and bring their kids home and, you know are living what, what I think we all perceived was meant to be a relatively normal life. And maybe that is something else in this. Is that that as as a military spouse, often you normalise stuff because it's your way of coping. You know, this is just what we do. You know, we're stoic and we get on with it. You know, however many house moves we've been through, we get on with it. But actually, I was unbelievably isolated, and I felt I felt lonely. I felt lonely and I didn't feel I could share. That's fascinating, isn't it? Do you think I mean, sort of before that, do you feel people did share? Was there something significant about that particular deployment that stopped people sharing? Or do you think it just we don't share? Was that the same? Yeah, that's a that's a really, really great question. I think, I think there are a few different dynamics going on. I think, firstly there, there's a gender piece going on. We had lost most of the men within our worlds. So I work for myself. So I would get a fix when I went to meetings, I would get a, you know, a fix of, of, I guess, what is the real world. Although actually, in that world, we were often all talking about what was happening on the news, you know, it was almost like we couldn't get away from it. There was no respite in that space. So I think gender, you know, and the fact that there wasn't, you know that just regular male female influencing within that space. I think that we all felt that we just had to get on with it, and we couldn't. It was like, you don't want to let any cracks in. You don't want to show any weakness, because you know what sits behind that is real fear. It's real, real fear. Real fear of getting a knock on the door you know, the knock on the door that you know and you've imagined, you know so so you know, we don't let down those barriers because we're protecting ourselves, but I wonder whether we really are protecting ourselves, because maybe in that space where it's okay to cry and to express your emotions, it's it brings it brings unity together. It brings unity and it brings closeness and it brings belonging. So I think we were just stoic. We got on with it. And I guess it's, it's one of those situations, isn't it? So I, I dated somebody who went in as a medic, and literally, as he joined the Kosovo war opened up, and he was sent straight over. He was in the first wave that went over. And I remember that he hadn't told me that he joined because we'd only sort of got together sort of six months before, and I think he was kind of thinking, I'm not going to worry her. And somebody else mentioned it at a dinner. So they we were at a formal dinner. And somebody else said something like, When do you leave? And it was at his passing out at Sandhurst. And so there I am, you know, sitting in this formal dress, you know, as far as I've concerned, you know, it's very sad that he's gone in anyway, because he'd signed up before we'd met. And suddenly, you know, in this formal setting, someone says, So when do you leave? And I'm thinking, leave for where? And so he kind of froze next to me, and I'm thinking, what? And so obviously, you know, kind of held it together through the dinner. And then afterwards he said, I'm, I'm leaving basically in about, you know, three, four weeks or a month or something. And, and I, you know, said, Why didn't you tell me? And he said, Well, I kind of was going to tell you, and he just delayed telling me. And, you know, I was furious. But I think it's interesting what you say that sort of, you never know when they're going to go. And for me, you know, he was going straight into a live situation, and, and, and I remember just, I mean, I didn't know anyone else. I didn't live on base. I didn't know anything about it. And I think there's a real difference between this sort of situation where, you know, most situations, you can sit down with a girlfriend, or, you know, like you said, a sibling, and they'll say, you know, but that's really unlikely that will happen. Or, you know, you're worrying too much, or you're overthinking it, and you are, you're going to this worst case scenario that is very unlikely to happen, but in that situation, it's an absolute reality, yeah, that that they could be killed, and it's very different. And so I wonder if there is a mindset there, because I didn't talk to any of my friends about it, because none of them, none of them understood, so I kind of just ignored it and put it to the back of my head. But I wonder if it's because that situation, you know, somebody can't say to you, of course, they're not going to get killed. Or, of course, can they, they get they can't say that to you. And because nobody knew, nobody knew, you know, regardless of your views, your politics, these are just human beings. They're human beings doing their thing. And for, for for me, it's very much now about king and country. And obviously back then, it was for Queen and Country. And I think, I think some of the preparation that we did for it, I think now it would be probably very different. I think, you know, emotionally, we've had emotionally and we've had COVID, you know, so we've had, we've got these younger generations that are maybe different to how, how it would be for me. And I know that for a reason, because at the time in the base we had, I was, I was running my own business, but there there were very few business owners. There were lots of vocational lots and lots of brilliant vocational teachers, doctors, nurses, you know, really, really critical. But that has changed now an awful lot. And I think within, and I know it's not, I think I know that there is a far more, far more. There are more spouses that run their own businesses, that work in, you know, don't move around as well now. That's the other thing. They don't move around, you know, they stay static. And their partners then move somewhere else to do their jobs, and then they, you know, they they come home on weekends, or they come home once every two weeks. So I think there have been a lot of changes since, you know, 2002 and the next, you know, number of years where we know likes of Kosovo, and you know those, those, the nature of those, those things happened. And I think we've had to become more astute as to how we feel, and that disconnection piece because of COVID, because we've all experienced that time where we were shut behind doors and we were maybe with, you know, family members, or, you know, some people who were on their own. You know, that disconnection piece became a reality that we needed to address. We needed to find ways to be able to talk about what's really, really important. You know, what makes us tick as a group of people, as a community, as a team, as an entity, and and some of that is being real, being real about what's really going on for you. It's interesting. You're reminding me. I feel terrible because he's actually a guest on my leadership podcast. I can't remember his name, but he wrote a book called Connected Soldiers. And so he's, I mean, he's still in the military, actually, you can see him a lot in the news at the moment, but he was speaking about his book, and so he said there was a real difference, and he I'm interested to see your take on this. So he said, when he was first deployed, they had no mobile phones. So he said, you called your partner when you called your partner, very, very quickly, you know, it was not, it was not, not regular. And he said, you know, that sort of, I think it was the second or third time of deployment. He said everyone had mobile phones. But he said he thought this was a negative for the soldiers that they could actually contact home, because he said, what, what happened was, you, you came out of what's the word like a live situation, people might have died. He said, instead of everybody sitting together in the mess and kind of debriefing together, they've been through it, they understood, etc, everybody separates off and goes and speaks to their spouses. And he said the problem with that is a the spouses don't get it because they're not in a live situation. He said it puts a huge amount of pressure on the spouses to say the right thing. It doesn't really do the same debriefing role that the soldiers need anyway. So I thought it was a really interesting concept, and I will find his name up a bit in the show, but the book's really interesting. But I'm wondering what, how do you feel as a spouse, being more connected to your husband now than presumably you were back then? So rolling back a number of years, I was also in the Reservist so from my from my perspective, I mean, I chose to go down the reserve route rather than regular route. It was a conscious choice, and, and, and, you know, for my relationship with my husband, which also dates back to the same period, it was the right decision for us. But I get it. I get it, and I get I get why it's it is important that, from my perspective, when when soldiers are out there working, they need to be working focused, really, really, you know, it's mission critical that they're there to do a job and I think, from my experience of my husband, if a conversation doesn't go well, that can leave him in a world of turmoil, because he's then got to go back into that that place, and continue his job. But likewise, if it goes well, you know, again, that feeds him doing his job. But I do recall my husband saying to me, he said, once he became a father and he deployed, it was a really different experience, because he had children that he wanted to come home to, you know, of course, he he had me, and he wanted to come home to me. But I think having children was a game changer. I mean, he's still serving, you know, he still did the job, but it was, it was there was a real, a real driver for him that, you know, I want to get home to see my kids. I want to be there for my kids. So I think, I think from a connection piece, actually, that family element is, is very important. But I also do remember. So, I mean, way back there were no mobile phones, as you said, there was just no no, no conversation at all. Then I do remember, because, you know, we've been doing this for a fair few years. I do remember we had Skype. So we would Skype once a week. And, oh, actually, was it Skype? Maybe it was satellite phones. Do you know, I can't remember, but I know they got 20 minutes a week. So we had 20 minutes a week to talk to his mum, his dad, you know me, and we knew that we just had to get everything out as quickly as possible. And I would make a list of all the things that I had to get answers for. So for like buying a house. You know, I bought a house in his name, because we have power of attorney between each other and my my head was also power of attorney. So, you know that that that trust and belonging and being connected was was at the point that I said, we're buying a house, honey and and he was like, Okay, I trust you. I trust you to allow you, you to sign for me that when we come home, I'll, you know, I'll have a house. So, you know, I do remember that it evolving, but I but also to the point that when something happened in theatre. If there was an issue and there had been loss of life or injury, all mobile phones would go down. All connection would be stopped, because they would be making sure that the family had been informed, and until the family had been informed, no information was allowed to leave from theatre. So I guess what, what that is also about is, you know, the boundaries of connection. It's knowing. It's knowing what, what will happen, you know, in that space and time. And, you know, I think that's that's really unusual for, you know, I look at my children now and I think, you know, how would they be if, if I said to them, you know, right, you're just going to lose your phone for a week because something's happened, you know, that connection piece. And actually, interestingly, my son is at boarding school because we move around an awful lot. So he's been boarding school for a number of years and a couple of probably around a month ago, he sent me an email saying, Mommy, my phone's been taken from me. I won't get it back for a week because another boy kept his phone overnight. So the housemaster did a blanket ban on all of the year group. And, of course, the boys were, you know, they were frustrated and they were crossed, because that's their lifeline, not just for speaking to me, which I'm sure probably wasn't high on the priority list, but, but, but, you know, it is an important connection piece when you know when he is there and all he's got is email and he has no method phoning at all, but also with the likes of things like Duolingo now, you know, if you've got your streak going, everything's on things on an Yes, everything's on an app. So app. if you've got streaks going, what does that mean for dopamine hit that we we give ourselves every time we press the button, and at the end of the week, he said to me, I'm really glad I had that week. I got so much done, interesting. So, you know, removing that connection and then giving it back was really insightful for him. I'm not sure he's actually made a jot of difference at all in terms of his mobile phone usage. But anyway, you know, it was a good lesson for him, certainly yeah, an experience, yeah, it's interesting is that how they manipulated the communication then, you know, when they were out. That's really interesting. Sort of you can have it and you can't. And I, and I want to come back to you, I mean, you reminded me of I used to do tech free weeks with my kids, and they would moan for two or three days, it would be, oh, I don't know what to do myself. They'd literally lie on the floor, kind of like, Ah, I don't know what to do myself. And then suddenly they'd start building things in the garden, and, you know, and so I'm a massive believer in no tech, I have to say. But I want to come back to your story, though, this this sense that you're around all of these people going through exactly the same experience. Because I think often what what isolates us is thinking that no one understands how we feel. Now, for you, you knew categorically that sort of all the other people on that base, whose spouses had gone off, felt exactly as you felt, and yet there was still this intense disconnection. And it's funny, isn't it? Because it's reminding me of all these posters from sort of second world war. You know that stoicness, isn't it? We, you know, be strong. And, you know, I was reading a book recently based in 1943 and and the women are, you know, they're working all day, and then they're going and volunteering at, like, the fire station or something in the night, and this whole sort of, you know, in someone respects, you don't matter we all just need to get in and persevere. And I think it's something that I see women, especially women, just starting to come out of. So the odd Instagram post that says, I don't ever want to be called strong again, or I'm sick of being called strong. So it's, it's interesting, isn't it that you were surrounded by people, because I think this is really common when you're talking about topic of aloneness, to be surrounded by people, but actually incredibly lonely. It's an interesting experience, isn't it? I think so. And I think what I had to work out is that because small child just walking in the background, but we're being videoed for Don't worry. I'll leave it in if you're all right with that. Yes, she'll now be mortified. I think she's going to do some sewing. So I was like, whoa, okay, that was a sewing basket. Yes, good craft. I think what I had to work out was, or what I realised was that I was enough. I had to become comfortable with being alone. I did feel lonely, but with that space of feeling lonely, I did have to get on with it. There was, you know, there wasn't another way I had to get on with it. But it was okay, and I was enough in that space. And I think we spend, we spend an awful lot of time with people not connecting. And actually, as you said, that tech free time, you know, when you have a tech free so occasionally I do a tech free weekend, which is at the beginning, like the beginning of the weekend, I really don't enjoy at all, because I read a book again, and I do all those other things. But I think, you know, it was it actually being comfortable in that space where I'm alone and it's okay, it's okay to feel as I do, and I maybe I'm seeking not to feel lonely. Maybe I should actually be seeking it's okay to be alone. It's okay to fill my time with new things that maybe I had never experienced before. So I think you know that that was something that I really recognised, was was it was okay, I am enough. And I think I think the other thing that I I recognised was that I had to find a way to be. I had to find a way to be alone. So, you know, whereas before there was a connection with my husband and we'd fill time together, we'd do things, we'd go to parties within, within the base, within the military base, you know, I mean boy, we had some good parties. You know, there was always, there was always, always a social piece, always massively social. It was always a Friday night in the bar. Or, you know, that happening on Saturday, or this with the kids. Suddenly that that was gone. So I had to find something else, I had to find another thing to do that was going to give me a fix, you know, and a fix in a positive way, you know, give me that, that reason to be excited to get up in the day and go, What am I going to do today? Oh, okay, I'm going to go. I'm going to go for a run. You know, I'm going to go and I'm going to go and have a magnesium bath. Or, you know, I'm going to go and, but I'm gonna do something that takes care of me when I'm feeling this, this loneliness thing, that allows me I now have the time and space to do this. And I think maybe that's something that we learned through COVID, was that we had more time and space. We had more time and space to to be a unit, or to, you know, have those times where we might have gone out and had enforced connection. And I don't say that negatively. I just say the fact that we just went out and there were bars and pubs and restaurants. Now we had to find a way to do that at home. It's like you were saying, with, your kids in the garden, you know, doing something new. You know, how can I, how can I find a new way? It's funny, isn't it, that need for connection. One of my previous partners, he lived alone, and he very much stayed in. He was quite introverted, but he stayed in sort of three or four days, and he said, and they would crave human contact, and he would just go into the city centre and just walk around. And, you know, he didn't have a good friendship group and but he just found being around other people really important. And I know that sometimes, if I'm feeling a bit lonely, I will go charity shopping, and it's, it's very calming, you know, I just often don't buy anything, but I'm just pottering and I'm looking, but I'm around other people. And I think there's a difference for us to learn. I need to just be amongst other people, and I need to be talking to other people, and then I need to be seen, felt heard, having this deeper level conversation with other people. And I think the more time you spend on your own, the more you start to nuance between what's the thing that you need. And it was funny, because yesterday was Mother's Day, and I didn't see any of my kids yesterday. I went to the gym in the morning, and then I went out with a friend in the afternoon, and somebody said to me, what did you do, what have you done for Mother's Day? And I said, I went to the gym. And she went, Oh. And I went, No, that that was nice. That was like, My treat. He was to go and do this. And it was empty, of course. So, you know, I said it was my treat was to go and give myself this time to go I'm going to look after myself today, take care of myself. This is my space on my own. But there's that interesting nuance, isn't there between you're surrounded by people and fine not talking and then wanting, even just, you know, talking to a cashier, but then that deeper, meaningful conversation. And it's interesting how you use the words, I think you said, I found myself. I was enough. I was enough. And I think having gone on this journey, and obviously that's why I'm doing the book and the podcast, is it's it really solidifies that if you're not enough and you don't feel you are, it's gonna absolutely bring that up. And I know I saw that in COVID with clients, it was either people went, Oh, my life is great. I love the people I'm around, or it really showed them they didn't, didn't it, really kind of rattled the cages of a lot of people, I think. And I think, I think you know that that's your observation on the difference between being around people and in the space of other people, but not necessarily having to engage. And I get that fix, I find it. So I'm in Paris at the moment, and I we have a beautiful, beautiful, it's the the the most stunning library in Paris, with the lovely green lights over every desk. And, yeah, I mean, there are lots of libraries, but this is my chosen go to. And I sit there all day. And I sometimes I'm there from 10am to 8pm. I might talk to two people, maybe in the day, just to make sure I get a pass to go in and out or grab a coffee, or, excuse-moi, you know, I would like a coffee, or whatever it might be, but I am around people and what, what I noted, actually, the other day, I sat opposite this young guy all day. We actually he was busy in work when. I arrived, so I didn't interact with him. And I thought, well, maybe later on, we'll have a little bit of a catch each others eyes and smile or something, which would be my normal way. And he was so focused on his work. And the whole day, we didn't catch eyes once. And we were literally a metre, but there was a metre between us, because we both head down, but we were with people, and then energy in that space, that that I fed off, most definitely, and I would imagine most people in that space feed on, otherwise why would we be there? Yeah, you know being around people and so, yeah, getting that fixe just from other people's energy, just from, you know, maybe that brief interaction that made you smile. And I think, what in those times I like to think about giving to those other people that I'm I'm around, so it might be, and if I'm feeling good, and I, you know, I've, I'm energetic, I'm energised. Maybe I've done some exercise in the morning and I'm, you know, I go into to the library and I smile at someone. It's because I want, I want to give them something. I want to give them that bit of connection. Often people look surprised. It's like, my gosh, they look behind themselves. Is she smiling at me? And like, Yeah, I'm smiling at you, you know, just because I can and it's not weird, and then they realise it's them, and they smile back. And I just hope, through that little bit of connection, through a smile, or just, can I help you, you know you're struggling with something, can I help you that they get that, that it, maybe it makes their day that little bit better. It's really funny, because I've never heard anybody else say that, but I do the same. So if I see people even just looking a little bit morose, or just, I'm going towards somebody on the pavement, I always smile. And it's funny. I was literally just telling a friend this last night. So I was in London last summer, and I was just in one of those really good places. The sun was shining, you know, it was kind of like a bit of a movie moment. I was just, you know, walking on, feeling really good, and this older man came towards me. He must have been, I would say, late 60s, maybe 70s, and he just, you know, we caught each other's eye, kind of coming towards each other, just, you know, had a little smile. And then as we got close, you know, catch again, another little smile. And then as we walked past, we both gave each other this great big grin and walked past each other. And then for some reason, both of us sort of turned and looked around, smiled at each other again, turned again, and both of us stopped, and we actually came back together. And you know, he shook my hand and asked what my name was, and I asked what his name was, and he said, you know, where are you going? And I said, I'm going to have dinner with a friend. What are you doing? He said, Oh, I'm going to have dinner with a friend. We had this really nice conversation. And I said, lovely to meet you, and he's lovely to meet you, too, and we went on with our journeys. I have no idea, you know, I don't have any contact details for him or anything, but it was this really lovely little few minutes of humanity where two complete strangers, who are still complete strangers, connected in that moment about their day and just carried on. And I think I try actively to do it. And I also, if I see somebody who I think is, let's say, being treated unfairly in the world at the moment, I will make an extra effort to smile, to show I'm friendly, I'm accepting, you know, and to hopefully, like you said, pass on that bit of human connection. But I've never heard of anybody else who does it. So it's really lovely to hear that you're out there too. I, this may sound a bit strange. I have a little, it's a game I play with myself, but it's I when I go into a petrol station, I I opt to smile at people. Partly, if I'm not having a good day, it's good for me, because it does change my spirit and there are those who do look at me, and they do that looking behind them, oh my gosh, she's smiling. She's smiling at me. She's smiling at me. What's wrong with me, yes, but actually, it's amazing if you give yourself an allotted time. So for me, it's very easy, because I know I'm going to the petrol station, and it's like, right I'm in the petrol station, and I wonder how, wonder where maybe you, and maybe some of your listeners will now think, Oh, while I'm in a petrol station maybe I could smile at one other person. See what happens. Because it's a gift. When you smile, you giving people a gift you're giving somebody else. And and I kind of like to believe that if I've smiled at maybe five people, you know, in an authentic way, that maybe I'm just giving them a little gift, maybe I've just made their day a little bit better. You know, none of us know what's going on for other people. You know what's the reality of what's sitting behind their their door? You know what's really going on, what's happened that morning, what's happened the week before. You know, what are their concerns? What are their future concerns? What's going to happen next week? What are they worried about? So maybe that little bit of just giving a smile as a gift is a bit of energy, a bit of positive energy that might help them through. And they may never, never realise that someone smiles at them, but they smile back. And actually, when you were telling that story, what was I doing? I was smiling. I was sitting in your moment, enjoying your moment you telling your story and smiling, and it, it does wonders. I think, I think a smile is incredibly powerful. I mean, there are people, aren't they, who said, Oh, I was going to kill myself that day, and then someone smiled at me, you know, as I was walking to kill myself. So I think a smile is actually incredibly powerful. But as you said, it's actually very powerful for us too. It changes all our physio and I think it's six seconds of smiling or something, and all of your chemical system changes. So I always say to people, you know, in fact, in a speech, I was doing a speech recently about kind of disruption in the world, and I said, just smile at another human being every day, if you if you're struggling to take action on, you know, I want to do something, just say I'm going to smile at people. Because actually that's a really significant thing to do. And I think, as you said, coming back to the kind of the alone piece, actually just outwardly, sort of giving that gift. But like you said, it gives you something to have that connection with, with other people. Because I think, sort of coming back to your story, I think that this being around a lot of people, and people being very lonely is really common. And, you know, sometimes when we look at people who have committed suicide, people say, but they were surrounded by friends, or they were surrounded by, you think, yes, they had people around them, but that is a different thing, isn't it, from having that actual connection and just sort of, you know, I know we need to sort of start coming to an end. But do you think it's done differently now in the military, that's that sort of, do they bring the spouses together more? Or is that something that's still being worked on? Do you think? I think, I think probably it's being dealt with in different ways. So firstly, there is less expectation for spouses to move, and that spouses either buy their own homes and work and partners, those serving you know, live away and will travel, which I think is physically quite tough. I think the overseas piece, spouses overseas, they do some stuff very, very well, and still, there is a lot of learning to do, you know, particularly for the likes of those you know, if being connected aligns with our values. So for me, my values, the things I value most in my life. Actually, it's not quite my values, but things I value most, my family, travelling and working. Those are the three things. So if I can tick all those boxes, then you know, and I'm emotionally, you know, I'm emotionally connected with those boxes so so therefore. And I think work needs to be done in terms of how those with the powers think about what is important to those families. And I do believe they do think about it, but I think maybe they think about it from their perspective without really walking a mile in the shoes. So I think there is still work to be done, you know, without shadow of a doubt. And so there should be, because actually, it's not, you know, it's a partnership. It's a partnership. And if you want your spouse, your sorry, if you want your serving soldier to do a good job, then you have to look after the family. Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. To give them the emotional safety everything is okay, yeah, at home, that's very interesting. And I know sort of you know that you were talking about this feeling of isolation around others and and being part of this sort of group of people, but who weren't communicating at all. And just tell us a little bit, because that's that's gone into your working life, hasn't it? So, yes, how have you brought that into your working life? Tell us what you do and kind of where that ethos is present. So, so my business is based on connection. That is, that is what I do for organisations. I help them develop emotional cultures, and that is, and what that looks like is, that is emotional. It's the it's the emotional piece that connects you to your stakeholders. It's the emotional piece that connects you to your employees, be that leaders, teams. And it's the emotional piece that connects you with to your customers, because we buy, we buy with emotions, and then we rationalise with logic, and we do it a lot with our customers within business, but often we forget that employees buy with emotions as well. So you know, how are we getting that buy in? How are we bettering and deepening that real, authentic connection so that our employees, our stakeholders, you know, show up, show up in a way that they want to support us, and that we allow them to feel that they are connected to the business, the bigger purpose, to the change that's happening, to the new, maybe new, new team collaboration, because we've just had a merger and acquisition, you know. So, so all those times where we need to get, gain, buy in, we want to boost engagement, productivity. We we start that journey through better connection. It's so funny, isn't it, how so many businesses don't get that yet. Obviously, I sort of, I do similar things, but I work more one to one, but it's really fascinating to me how people don't understand it. And as you said, actually often they've got it, they've got that you know, we know our customer journey avatar, that sort of piece, but they haven't got the employee bit or the stakeholder. And I think that's really interesting. Often they don't have the stake, they see the stakeholders or the investors as as the enemy, and they haven't built that relationship. And there's, it's kind of very, very tense relationship. And I agree with you. I think people don't understand. And I remember because I mentor at the business school here sometimes, and I was talking to this one of the mentees, and he came in and said, I want you to tell me, how can I, how can I prepare for a pitch to investors when I know no one's I don't know anyone who's going to be in the room. So it was like a blind pitch. And I said, What's your subject? And he said, Oh, it's cancer research. So I said, well, almost everybody has been affected by cancer. So I said, so you start by saying almost everybody in this room will have been touched by cancer in some way or another. And I said, instantly, you've got connection to them. And I said, remember, these are human beings whose wife, sister, mother, father, brother, friend, you know, could have died of it. Could have experienced it. So I said, you humanise yourself straight away. And he kind of went, Oh, I was just like, for me, it's so obvious, of course, but he didn't understand it at all. And I think that connection is especially important for for the world now, isn't it massively important, stay connected to each other. 100% 100% yes. I have some questions I want to ask you. Yes of course So looking back to that time that you went through, as you said, incredibly lonely, and that you weren't expecting it, because I think sometimes we can predict but that you weren't expecting it, what was the biggest positive impact that that time had on you, that sort of getting to being I am enough, I am okay alone, that that it had on you. What was the biggest one that I am enough. It's simple as that, that that I found new ways. It's very easy to say, I can't a lot. I can't do that. Well, probably you can. You're just choosing not to. And so recognising that you are enough for whatever you have decided to set your mind to. And of course, you know, are you, are you wanting to run a marathon? Are you, you know, are you wanting to learn to cook? You know, I mean, they're very task based what I've just suggested there. But, you know, within that realms, I either can or I can't, which one are you opting for, and therefore recognising that you are enough, and you'll find a way, you'll find a way to do it. I really like that. It's I've been single for a couple of years, and it's my longest time ever single in my life, because this obviously has been my journey. And I found myself recently thinking, you're very good at going out and doing things. So I go out and do things on my own, but I, a lot of my friends are incredibly busy, and so I have been sitting in this kind of, in this kind of slump, saying to myself, well, I am, as you said, surrounded by people, but actually not finding that connection. And actually, a few weeks ago, I thought, come on, Mari like you need to sort this out, actually. You need to actively go out and reconnect with people. You need to be the one you know, finally in your life, you're the one who's got the time. I haven't got really kids at home anymore. You need to be proactive in it. And I think sometimes we can get a bit caught, can't we in that kind of and, you know, that's me as a therapist and a coach, and knowing all my stuff, you know, even I kind of slid into the kind of our lives being a bit unfair to actually say, Hang on. I need to take action. And I think sometimes, especially where loneliness is concerned, I think we stop taking action and we get a bit kind of woe is me. And I had to sort of give myself a bit of a kick out of that, actually, because we do have to take action to, you know, whatever, whatever that thing is missing in our life, go and find it. And sometimes it. To be so small, it doesn't have to be a big thing. It can just just one little step, and a very quick story I tell from that one step. So I raced. I mean, I use the marathon example, because I've done all sorts of ultra I'm gonna go with impressive. marathons and Iron Man and kind of long distance, impressive or silly, I don't know, and Okay, I'll take that one. I'll take that one. And I was midway through an ultra marathon in the Sahara Desert. It was 40 degrees. I'd been walking through the day, and I could feel a blister starting to form on my foot. And I had made a decision that, you know, the moment you feel a blister, you have to stop because you have to sort it out you have but I was in that world of, this is too hard. I can't do this. I don't want to do this anymore. You know, I'm feeling really sorry for myself in this moment, and I can feel this blister. Oh, well of course there's going to be a blister. You know, of course it's going to happen to me. I'm sure nobody else has got blisters here. And I recognised that I was talking myself out of this, and I was also talking myself out of dealing with the blister because I was tired, I didn't want to do it. And it was the game changer. It was the game changer stopping and taking literally, three, four minutes to sort my shoe out, sort my trainer out to to, you know, I think I must put something on the blister. Stood back up, and it was just one different action. That's all I did, one different action. And I looked up, and I remember looking out across the plane and thinking, everything just looks different now. Oh, I feel better. You know and that's the thing. It could be something simple, like retying a shoelace that allows you to see a different way. Sometimes all we need is just that little bit you know of seeing that different way. Yeah, I completely agree with you. It's just, it can be the tiniest, tiniest little thing, can't it, where you just think, actually, that's just made everything feel better, and then everything moves from there. Yeah, I love that story. And it must have been amazing. Must have been amazing. Looking back at that time, what sort of book, film, music helped you go through it? What kind of, you know, makes you get that bit of emotion again that reminds you, I so, I mean, that's to be honest. I listen to all sorts of music so, so there's all sorts of, you know, upbeat music that I put on when I feel yeah, it takes me there. And I, you know, embarrassingly you might start dancing around to my children, with my children who want me to stop. But I think a book that I was given by a friend during that time. It's called the Go Giver, which I don't know if you've read the Go Giver. that's real. It's a short story. No, I'm not I'm not a great reader. I don't like big books, and this is just one of those. It's quite an entrepreneurial has an entrepreneurial feel to it, but actually, the story behind it isn't and, and it's all about giving to receive. And in the whole book, it's about, you know, it's almost like giving the smile, because you might get a smile back, and that feeds you. So, so it's, it's a book. It's by, I had to look this up, actually, Bob Burg and John D Mann, but it's called the Go Giver. Really short, and I would recommend, I mean, it for me who's not a great reader, I think probably took me two or three hours to read it. Okay And it's got sort of different messages throughout it. It's beautifully written. It's easy reading, which I need. Easy reading, quick, finish a book quickly, but left with a really, really great message, give to I really like that. I have a receive. friend who practices what she calls radical generosity, and and it's lovely, because actually, you know, she really aimed it at me. I met her through it was, she was a work connection and every year I kept thinking, why does this woman keep helping me, you know, for no reason. And she said, I practice radical generosity. And so we have this joke that I say to her, sorry. We have this joke that I say to her, you know, what can I do for you? And she sends me that little meme, you know, one day I'm going to call on you. You're gonna, you're gonna need to come here. And I'm like, Yep, totally I'm there. So I love that. I love that final question. If somebody is listening and thinking, yeah, you know, actually, I'm in this, I'm in this sort of stuck point. What advice do you give them? So I chose, I chose piece of a poem, actually, to read a poem that I used to the, the lovely, lot the piece I'm going to read, I would when I was racing my Iron Man, I would actually tape it to the front of my bike. So when it was really tough, I had somewhere to go and just read and remind myself that kind of this is why I'm doing this. And so it's If by Rudyard Kipling, but it's actually the the last four lines. I mean, I would recommend, you know, I recommend, if you don't know the poem, go and read it and sit in the poem for a while. But for me, the last four lines are critical. So if you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run yours is the earth and everything that's in it. And which is more, you'll be a man, my son. Now, I know there may be people saying, man, woman, daughters, you know, but, but, yeah, I was racing an Iron Man. I still raced an Iron Man. But, you know, that piece of if you can fill the unforgiving minute, that moment when it's really tough and you can't see the light and you can't and you maybe you're feeling alone, what can you do that is going to change it? You know, you've got a window there to say, I'm going to do something differently, you know, I'm going to fill it with 60 seconds worth of distance run. Really lovely. So, yeah, that's really lovely. It reminds me of last year. I spent all year sort of learning and qualifying to work with trauma, PTSD and things like that. And the brain actually takes 30 seconds to work out whether it's kind of going, you know, definitely, am I going to die? Am I not going to die? Has this 32nd window where it works this out. And so we were actually taught one of the things is, if people count. Counting actually keeps you in the right sort of logical side of your brain and stops you disappearing and being triggered into into sort of fear and panic. Now obviously, you know it's hard to do, but I found it fascinating that this 30 seconds made the difference in whether you become incredibly traumatised or not. So I love that fill that minute. I absolutely love that I haven't read the poem. Sorry, oh, go and sit in it I haven't read the poem, so I'm gonna, I'm definitely gonna go and find it and sit with that. And I think probably one last thing to tie to that is then it's just to think, if you are in that space where you know, you were just thinking, I just don't know, I don't I don't know how to make today different. I want to make it different. I want to make it better. I want to, you know, I want to feel something different. Is just ask yourself that question, how do I want to feel today, to be, to be whatever it is you want to be, to be successful, to be happy, to be, you know, what, what is it I need to feel? And what can I do that's going to help feel that good stuff? I think a few years ago, I went through some trauma, and I couldn't, you know, I couldn't get out of it. There wasn't a lot to do about it. It was just a thing we had to go through and and I realised I was kind of losing myself into it. And I went and bought a really, really nice citrus hand cream. Now, I'm not a big makeup as you can tell, I don't wear a lot of makeup, etc. I got a really nice citrus hand cream. And my ritual every night was, you know, do my teeth, put my face cream, that sort of stuff. And then I would sit in bed and just spend a minute rubbing in this really nice citrus hand cream. And I sleep with my hand up, so then I could smell it when I was going to sleep. And it's, it was just my go to and sometimes, when I have clients who literally are, you know, at the bottom, I will just say to them, find something like that. Find your version of the hand cream. It's, it doesn't take any energy. It doesn't take anything, but it was something you're doing for you go and find that thing. So I love, I love that, that one minute, that's really lovely. Cara, thank you so much. I actually wish we had a lot more time. But thank you so much for coming on and discussing your journey. And I think it's incredibly powerful to look at the topic of feeling a lonely whilst feeling alone. Feeling a lonely alone, maybe that's a new word, feeling alone while surrounded by lots of other people. So thank you very much. And if people want to find you for your teamwork, where can they find you? LinkedIn. LinkedIn is the go to place @ Cara Cunniff, two n's, two F's. I would put all the details in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for your time. My pleasure and thank you. Thank you for sharing this time with me. Thank you for listening to my Alone and Rising podcast, I would really like to ask you a favour. I'm currently researching this topic for a book, and it would be great if you would be happy to share your story of being alone. I have a simple questionnaire that takes just a few minutes to fill in and is completely confidential. I've been incredibly grateful, and you might even find that you'd like to offer to come on the podcast and talk about your story. Either go to www.aloneandrisingquestionnaire.scoreapp.com, or you can find the link in the show notes or on my profile on LinkedIn. If you have enjoyed this episode, please do subscribe, review it and share it with anyone that you feel would benefit from understanding that alone does not have to be lonely. You can also sign up to my mailing list and you'll receive blogs and updates on how the book is coming along. We hope our exploration into the power of being able to be alone with yourself has given you some valuable insights, and if you aren't there yet, take heart. It is just a first step. Remember to take time to connect with yourself. It is the best way to create a future that you love again. Thank you for listening and until next time, take care of yourself so that you too can be alone and rising you