Finding Purpose and Community After Loss with Judy Reith

In this powerful episode of Alone and Rising, host Mari Williams sits down with Judy Reith to explore the transformative journey of navigating grief, loneliness, and rediscovering purpose after losing a spouse. 

Judy shares her raw and inspiring story of creating Cambridge Widows, a support group that helps widowed individuals find connection, healing, and joy through shared experiences. 

With vulnerability and wisdom, she reveals how facing darkness can lead to unexpected light, offering hope and practical insights for anyone struggling with loss and learning to rebuild life on their own terms.

You can find out about Cambridge Widows here

https://www.cambridgewidows.com/

You can connect with Judy on LinkedIn here

https://www.linkedin.com/in/judy-reith-a6ab7b10/

You can help Mari with her research by taking the Alone and Rising questionnaire here

https://aloneandrisingquestionnaire.scoreapp.com/

About todays guest, Judy Reith: 

Judy is a life coach and writer of parenting books, and the acclaimed life coaching book ‘Act 3: The Art of Growing Older’ co-authored with her husband Adrian, a business and life coach until he died. 

Now widowed three years, Judy continues to write and is working on two novels. She has three grown up daughters who have flown the nest, and are in touch on WhatsApp most days! 

Judy is also the Co-Founder of Cambridge Widows ) a group of widows who meet in person and offer vital support, understanding and resources. 

They also have some shared activities, such as outings and a pop-up choir with widowers too. Cambridge Widows laugh as much as they cry. 

Judy still lives in the family home in Cambridge, or at her seaside cottage on the Suffolk coast with her dog Ted. She is a sluggish runner, choir singer, reader and a big fan of community initiatives. 

She a loves nothing more than a good laugh or a deep conversation with her friends, aided by wine and cheese. Widowhood is by far the worst thing she has encountered, but running Cambridge Widows and bringing something positive to heartbroken women is a tiny silver lining from Adrian’s death.  

For more information about Cambridge widows, please go to www.cambridgewidows.com 

What is Cambridge Widows?  

Judy and her neighbour Helen were both widowed in 2021 when their healthy husbands died of cancer. Both couples never met, but they expected to grow old and enjoy retirement adventures. Instead, Judy and Helen were thrown into widowhood, and devastating grief. 

By chance, a neighbour introduced them, and they immediately formed a strong friendship from shared trauma, isolation and loss. More widows came along, and three years on, there are now 55 Cambridge Widows members who meet regularly, enjoy outings and vital empathic support.  

Our age range is 50ish- 70ish, a transition time of life which makes being widowed so painful. Any woman whose partner has died is welcome to contact us. 

Judy Reith said:  

 “Being widowed has turned my life upside down, yet singing in a choir of widows for a day was such a tonic for coping with loneliness and grief. Meeting Helen, forming Cambridge Widows and organising events for widows and widowers has given some purpose to my life again.”  

You can help Mari with her research by taking the Alone and Rising questionnaire here

https://aloneandrisingquestionnaire.scoreapp.com/

Transcript

0:10

Welcome to the Alone and Rising Podcast. I'm Mari Williams, the mind architect, founder of the Alternative Leader Academy, and author of It Begins With You. I'm currently writing my new book Alone and Rising. I have spent my entire life on a journey to being able to be happy alone, finding that place has been so transformational for me that I want to inspire you to do the same. Alone does not have to be isolated or even being single. It is about creating a strong internal sense of self worth, so that your life decisions and your relationships come from a place of strength, rather than need. My guests and I will share our personal stories of being lonely and the journey that we have taken to becoming happy, alone and rising. Thank you very much, Judy, for coming on to the podcast. I really appreciate you coming on and being so sort of vulnerable and candid about your story. Well, it's such an important topic, and I'm really, really glad that you're tackling this, Mari, if anybody can do it, you can. Well, I feel like it's been my, my own 50 year journey, I feel like I have a lot of experience in this being alone journey, and I'm equally really passionate about it. So I'm interested to know, tell me when you first felt that feeling of being alone or being lonely, when did that first kind of really register for you? So I don't like being on my own at all. I I was living at home till I was 18. I left home in a flat share. Years went by, got married, all of that I've I just don't do this alone thing. So that's the kind of physical side of it, which is very difficult for me. But when my husband was diagnosed with cancer at the beginning of 2021 it was utterly shocking, and it came out of the blue, and he was a strong and healthy man. So I went off for a walk later that afternoon, and it hit me like a truck, that sense of I am alone in this, and I didn't know where on earth to start with trying to come to terms with that, because I felt this enormous crushing weight of trying to be even tempered or calm enough to support Adrian. He was the one living with this life threatening and turned out to be terminal diagnosis. Then three adult kids who were falling apart at this news as well. Then extended family and I felt really alone with being the widow or the widow to be in that situation, and it was cold and frightening, just dreadful. And did you ever feel that you could share that experience with No, I didn't. I felt that was Adrian? not the thing to share with him. We shared so many other things, we were given more time than many of the other people I now know through running Cambridge Widows who whose partners died suddenly. We did have 10 months to have those brutal, heartbreaking conversations about just practical things like passwords, but also heartbreaking things about the future that we imagined leaving with with him, really, and I didn't feel I could add to that by just telling him I felt incredibly alone in in the role of being his his wife. That's that's incredibly hard, because you're not only carrying what You're having to go through in the moment, and you're carrying your three children, but you're also actually carrying your own journey completely on your own as well. I was Was there anybody for you? Sorry, was there anybody? Yes, um, so I have a, I have a an amazing sister who is a therapist. So she's kind of gold star for good listening, good empathy. But I also did have a therapist at the time who I'd been working with on another issue, so she was extremely helpful as a safe place for me to pour out my deepest fears of of being on my own in that early stages of his demise, but also after he died, you know, then feeling completely alone. And, yeah, so therapy, absolutely was was, was what got me through then, and all the usual things that many people know about, which is, you know, exercise, fresh air, being in nature. Really lucky, I've got a dog, so no matter how awful and lonely I was feeling, I could go out with the dog and maybe I'd bump into someone. But I actually bought a coat that winter with a massive fur hood so I could go out and only only be like this, you know, not, not have to deal with bumping into neighbours and things. And did you find that it I mean, did you feel that it did separate you from the people around you that you knew, like neighbours and friends and things absolutely I mean, I was widowed at 61 and most of our friends in couples, still, most of our friends who are single, family members are not not living alone. And I just felt in that first year my brain had gone to mush anyway, because it does. It's a real thing without brain. And I think I just felt really, really paralysed about trying to make any decisions about, do I want a cup of tea? I don't know. Do I want to go and see a friend this afternoon, I don't know so, so I did feel I just didn't know what I was doing from one day to the next. And that was, that was with, you know, our story, which was I had 10 months to kind of come to terms with this massive handbrake turn in our lives. And it's, it's so, I guess what I'm thinking is that, you know, obviously, I know you and I knew Adrian a little as well. And you know, I certainly remember, you know, meeting you and thinking, wow, you're you're so incredibly lucky. You're such a lovely couple. You were so in tune with each other. And you know, for me, certainly, when I when I heard the noise, the news, sorry, I I was, I sort of felt the loss of that future for you as well, because you were just such a wonderful couple together, and so I can't imagine how it felt like to be half of that couple. And I guess what I'm thinking is, how have you got through that, and what what have been the things that have helped you in your mindset, adjust to that new future that you've now got on your own, at the moment anyway, I think that's a really good way you said it actually by accident, saying when I got the noise, because that's kind of what it felt like at times, rather than the news it was, it was a massive, loud noise that didn't go quiet for a very long time, and it still can be really noisy. It's a good way to describe grief, actually. Thank you for that. So what got what got me through was I have been a life coach for 20 years, and I was also doing a lot in parenting education. And just like all that theory about becoming a parent is really useful, when you actually become a parent, there's so much of it that you you can't remember in the heat of the moment. And you know, you read all the books, you listen to the podcasts, but I think somehow we have got the most amazing built in survival mechanism. And I did have some responsibilities. I felt very responsible towards kind of being okay, enough towards my three adult kids. That's not to say that I was being Pollyanna ish about it or not, also being very real about my own utter heartbreak, because I thought by being real with my feelings, it enabled my kids to be real with me about their feelings. And it was all those life coaching skills. You know, Adrian I wrote a book together about growing older, and we had all sorts of plans about going on book tours, and, you know, a whole shared working life as well as a personal life. So it really was like being cut in half in every way and many couples who've been together a very long time, you know, the widows I've talked to and worked with now, there's a lot of what the hell is my role in this world now, you know, how do I find my identity again because I was always used to. You know, Adrian and Judy was like one word, and it's really lovely what you said about seeing us as a happy couple, because, yes, we certainly had our bumps as well. We were quite different individuals, but we did a lot of a lot of proactive work on that as well. While we were writing our book about growing older, we had therapy in a very productive way about recognising we were at a new stage, this Act Three, as we call it, with an empty nest, and needing to find ways to reconnect with each other in what has been traditionally the retirement years. But actually, how did we want our shared life to look? How were we going to navigate our differences? So we were doing quite a lot of work on each other like that, on our on our marriage, and that certainly helped as well, because I, I'd kind of faced that with him. So we've, we've always been, and me, particularly, I've, I've been one of those people that I liked, I'd rather know and what work on and walk towards disasters or potential disasters, because then the then the heat and the fear dials back. You know that literally, the old question, isn't it? What's the worst that could happen? Well, your husband might die. Well, he did. I'm wondering, then, how have you how have you managed to adjust such a vision of the two of you together, like book tours, and, like you said, writing the book together, how have you or have you, maybe is the better question. Managed to adjust that to you on your own. I think the three is in there are moments now where I feel I'm sort of getting used to being on my own, and that's not to say that I'm thankful for that at all. I still feel really lonely and and I miss that sense of companionship, and that that number one person to to chat to about nothing and everything, that person who the only, only person in the world, is equally invested in our kids, and that that's someone to do nothing with, watch strictly with. Actually, no, we didn't do that. He didn't like strictly. But it's that sense of, it doesn't matter if it's if it's the weekend and you've got no friends doing to do anything with. You've got each other and that teamwork, all of those things, you don't realise how much they count for something until they have gone and not just gone for a bit. They've gone forever. And I liked that phrase somebody to do nothing with, because I think that really encapsulates it. Because often, and I know when I'm talking to clients, when they're, you know, they're lonely, or they're missing friends, or they haven't got a partner, or a partner's died, they really struggle to verbalise what it is that they're missing, you know, a cuddle, I really miss a cuddle and a kiss or whatever. But I think it's, I mean, we probably would use the word companionship, wouldn't we, but I think that something to do nothing with for me. You know, I know when you kind of mentioned that before that, that really struck home with me. You know, I'm at place, you know, as you know, I'm sort of single, really, probably the first time in all happily single, anyway, the first time in my whole life. And but there are moments where I can be moved to tears with a kind of, kind of like someone to sit on the sofa and watch this with me, and so that's something to do nothing with. It's like, I don't need anybody, but someone, someone to do nothing with is exactly, is exactly that. And so you're having to adjust to, kind of doing those things on your own. That's hard absolutely, yes, it is hard, but I think it's helped a lot doing lots of work on on myself over all those years of being a life coach that I know myself well enough now to to know the bumpy bits, that I'm not great on my own. And yes, I could, I could get some sticking plasters and sort of do some mindset twisting and all that kind of thing to reframe that. And I can do that, but I think I've come to the conclusion that it's better to be real about my warts and all this, if that makes sense. And so I've got a lodger now, so that has helped a lot. It's another beating heart, apart from the dog, in the house, and she's not a she's not a housemate. We're not sharing cooking and all that kind of stuff. We might just happen to be eating together at the same time, but just having a sense of someone else in the house is really good for the extrovert that I am, as I'm sure many of your your audience here will know, extroverts are energized by being with people. Introverts are drained by being with people. So even if I'm really, really exhausted and feeling on my knees, I'm still better off going off to be with other people than being on my own. So I know that about myself and and I think that the the strength in this work around being alone is starts with you to do the work on yourself about what, what's going to help you, what works for you? Is it, is it therapy? Why not? You know, is it join a gym? Is it stop drinking every night? You know what? You owe it to yourself to have an MOT and work out what's going to help you. And, you know, hire somebody to do that with you if you can afford it, and you you believe in that, but there are lots of things that you can do for very little or no cost that will, literally, in the next half hour, help you feel a bit less on your own. Just just go and stand outside, and it will feel slightly better when you come in. Yeah, that's really interesting. It's reminded me of a book I read earlier this year. I don't know if you've read it, and it's called Your Brain on Grief, and it's, no I don't think I have oh, it's a I fully recommend it. I'll send you the link, and I'll put the links in the notes, in case anyone else wants to read it. But she's a neuroscientist, and her research was into grief because her father died and but it's looking at, literally, kind of, what is your brain doing when it is grieving, and fun, functional MRI scans and all of that sort of thing. And she says that we, we create almost, sort of maps of people. So we have a map of them on a, I think it's an emotional level, a time level and a place level, so kind of in space. So she said when, when somebody is close to you, whether that's a friend or a partner, you have kind of an internal map of where they are in the world. So, you know, I know you're here at 12 o'clock, you know, most days, you have a rough map of them. And then and time, so this time you're probably going to be in this space, but then emotionally, so where they are in relation to us as a human being. You know, are they kind of over here, or do they feel emotionally much closer? And she said, it can take about two years after someone dies or disappears from your life for your brain to literally have to remap all its neural networks to understand that person no longer exists. And she was saying, when someone dies, it's actually much worse for the brain than kind of I've moved to Australia or something like that, because the brain actually kind of has trouble comprehending, Well, I don't, I can't put you in space. I can't put you in time. Yeah, and, and so she said, it takes ages, if it's been an incredibly long and close relationship for the brain to be able to remap, you know, this person isn't in these spaces anymore. They're in this kind of other space, whatever other is for that person. And I remember that she used this analogy, and I was reading this book quite close to a really difficult breakup, and she said it's like going downstairs in the night for a glass of water, and you don't bother turning the lights on, and you don't hit your hip on the corner of the table, because the table isn't there. And she said, so the brain notices the thing that isn't there rather than the thing that is. And she said that grief was quite like that. It was quite like having this big space in your brain where your brain's kind of going. I don't know what to do with that space. Yeah, I don't know if that resonates at all. Yes, you could just look at your sort of practicalities, like the diary or, you know, what are we doing at Christmas and suddenly there's 50% of those of somebody's needs and wants in any of those situations is has dropped off the calendar, literally, and you're left as the widow or the bereaved person in the relationship, whether it's a child, parent, whatever it is, you're left, you're left with still dealing with that. I've just passed my wedding anniversary, which was just dreadful this year. Last year wasn't as bad this year, it was terrible, absolutely dreadful. And, you know, I've got the anniversary coming up, so the these, these moments will carry on for the rest of my life. And they stopped when he died for him, they stopped, you know, and lots of widows I've talked to carry a certain amount of anger sometimes, like it's all right for you, you're out of here. I'm left with all this shit. Yeah, sorry. I'm not sure I can use naughty words. No, it's fine. swearing's fine, but yeah, it is. And of course, that's, that's the kind of inner child of you just feeling really miserable in your, in your sort of little Judy way that that you know I'm I've got to live with all this mess and and you, you your mess stopped when you stop breathing. But I, again, it's about recognising what does little Judy need/? I need, I need someone to give me a hug. I need someone else to be nice to me and to be kind. And I'm very, very lucky that I found that kind of outlet through through my sister, particularly, my girls. Yeah they're blowing in and out with it, but they're, you know, young women out there, they've all left home. They need to get on with their lives. And they are, which is amazing. But I think, I think the single biggest thing that's helped my loneliness and aloneness has been hanging out with other widows and meeting them in an ad hoc way to start with, and that, that was two years after, two years ago, I was introduced to a neighbour who happened to be widowed, and we are completely different women. She's 10 years younger than me, she hasn't had long in Cambridge. She doesn't have any family or children, and yeah, completely different. But we instantly hit it off and had a rapport, because we both had our husbands die of cancer or just die. And then we met another one and another one, and we are now a group of 55 women in Cambridge and surrounding area. And we meet every month, and we laugh, we cry. It is a it is a place of total acceptance, whether you feel okay, whether you feel dreadful that particular we do we do a monthly drink on a Sunday night, because weekends are dreadful, or can be. So we just think, well, once a month there's going to be one that deals with this sense of being lonely. Sunday nights really lonely. So again, I would say, you know that now, so, so let's get some stuff in the diary for Sunday nights and Cambridge Widows is, is my favourite. It's amazing. And as you know, obviously I recommended somebody to you, and I know that is a really big impact. And you know, you were kind enough to meet her first and then sort of gently ease her in. And I, you know, I know from feedback as well that it's been huge, huge, huge. And the feedback was the same. I just need somebody who knows how this feels. And, you know, I can sit there as a therapist and, you know, and kind of give my ideas, but I don't, I don't have that experience. And I think the feedback was actually just being in a room with people, whether I, you know, would be with them normally or not, you know, whether they you have the same personality, but I just someone gets I don't have to explain, I don't have to try and describe, I can just go, I feel this now, yeah, I feel the same. And I think that's been quite transformational. It's astonishing. I mean, as I said before, it's just like other big life stages, and you find your tribe in those moments, and sometimes it's a a deliberate seeking of your tribe, and I would encourage anybody to somehow find that tiny smidgen of strength to see if they can sniff out another person who's in the same thing as them, whether it's widowhood, or your siblings died, or whatever it is. And obviously there's a lot of online resources that we have used at Cambridge Widows. But also, we know other people have have accessed things that have have helped them, but it there is a lot that can help absolutely. And I think, I think no go on well, I was just, I was just going to say, you know that Simon and Garfunkel song is it, Mrs. Robinson, and there's a line in it which says, Hello, darkness, my old friend, I've come to talk to you again. And I think with this stuff of being alone or feeling lonely, that you say hello to it, that you do hello, there you are, but you can find ways to not let it utterly swamp you and define you, but it's there, and it's it's probably unrealistic to pretend it isn't and that it isn't as ouchy as it does feel in the moment. But I as time passes, what I've learned is that it this too shall pass, but the the quickest route to getting it to pass is to first of all acknowledge it in that hello, what you know, give it a personality, give it a name, yeah, but, but then you're you, once you've looked at it, you can work on taking the power out of it. Yeah, that's so interesting. There's a few things I was thinking, I must try and remember these things I want to say. So the first thing I wanted to say about the group is, I do think there's something really powerful about coming together in person and being in a room where you can just sit, but you are it's almost like other people are holding your space. And you might sit and cry, you might sit in silence, but just to be with other people. And I think, yes, there's so much online these days, but I think one of the most powerful things, you know, I think, of your group, is being able to come and be in it. Yeah. So I just, I just sort of wanted to say that, and I think the the darkness thing is really interesting. So I, I know that kind of in my new space of feeling comfortable alone, that there's still moments. I was talking to a client today who was saying to me, you know, I'm not quite there yet, because she's looking for utter perfection of being completely okay alone. And I said, you know, biologically, we're kind of not designed to be alone. You know, two people in the cave was, was, you know, going to survive the tiger more than one. And I said to her, you know, I share with you. I sometimes sit on the sofa and I just dissolve into floods of tears and think, you know, right now, I would just like someone to come and give me a cuddle and watch TV with me and as you said, you know, do the nothing things with me. And as you said, it passes, and I've learned that it passes, but it can be extremely painful. And I know, you know, I've sometimes dropped a text to my therapist and said, Oh, I'm not sure if I'm there yet. And she go, you're there. You're just having a moment. Because you have to learn that process, don't you of I can say that I'm okay alone, and it doesn't mean I'm not going to have those darkness times where it's going to all feel awful, but I've learned that that will pass if I just sit with it. Yeah? I think that's powerful, yeah. And actually, if you don't, if you try and squash it down, so it's like massive anxiety. So that, you know, these huge strong negative feelings, if you try and deny them or push them away, they wreak havoc somewhere, and they come back to get you eventually. So you know, it's it, and all of that sort of narrative that so many of us were brought up with. Of you know, be brave. But you know, you must, you must, Adrian, would want you to be strong. Get over it, you know, pull yourself together, all of that stuff. It might have worked for some people. Possibly, it still does. But I think, yeah, it certainly can be way more destructive to, let me say, the majority to not actually say, Yeah, this is the, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. And yes, I'm in a nice house in Cambridge. I've got great friends, great family, great kids. I'm not in Gaza. I'm not in the Ukraine. But in terms of, does it feel terrible? If it feels as terrible as you can possibly cope with, it does that's real. That's my my reality, and, and, and that's a very important thing to help me stabilise again in those very black, dark moments. I think that's really important to, as you said, kind of feel the feels when you need to. I think it's so important feel the emotion and just sit with it, but know it will pass. I know when my mother died, which will be five years, I think 4, 4, 5, years coming up this year, this December, I had what I call my stream of sadness, and it was that I wanted to have an image that was allowing the grief to feel like it was moving, yeah, but I was also going through a lot else in my family, and I had to work and things, and I so I kind of didn't want to kind of shut everything off so that I could work and do things. So I came up with this image that, you know, almost metaphorical image, that there was this sort of continuous stream going past me, um, my stream of sadness, and that that was my sadness, and it was processing. And occasionally I would walk over and I would look into the stream, and I would feel much sadder. And I said, occasionally I would just fall completely in the stream and be absolutely saturated and in tears, you know, for however long I needed to be in tears for, but then I could come out, and I could live kind of over here, and I could work, and I could look after the kids, and I shared that with somebody today whose mother's died. But for me, it was, it was kind of that I wanted that sense of movement, that even when I wasn't paying attention to it, there was still movement through it. So I like that. I like that sense. A question I also had for you is, and this is something that's come up with a couple of my friends, is when, when their partners died, is that, do you find that when you're now making decisions just for you, that you find yourself thinking, Oh, I don't think Adrian, would you know like that or agree with that? Do you have that kind of tussle in your head now where it really the decision is now yours, but you're aware it's something he might not have, you know, he might have said to you, oh, I don't know why you're doing that, or wouldn't have done I think, I think it's that's a bit of a basket of mixed a mixture things, really, I would say that, you know that that I've in the first year or so when he died, I felt like I'd lost half my workforce and doubled the workload so it I was trying to sort of streamline things, but I was too shocked and upset at that point. Whereas, as time has gone on, I've I realised that actually it's quite nice being able to do things without conversation and negotiation. You know, there's a there's, there is, there is so many advantages of being, being on your own, and I'm only accountable to me because, as I said earlier, my kids are not in the house anymore, they've gone. But yeah, I think I would say that. I think it connects back to being us, being quite a different we were very different people. So he would, he would argue strongly for doing something or buying this type of car, which I wouldn't really, you know, it wasn't important enough to me. So in some ways it was a values clash, and in other ways it was, it was just misunderstandings and things like that, so that that's just gone. And I, I don't do, I many widows, I know this, they feel really, really guilty doing doing certain things now their husbands died, and not just the obvious thing like finding another partner, but things like spending money on a particular thing, or making decisions about family or friends. They do, they do, sort of sit under a great weight of guilt. And if I, if I get wind of this, I'm always saying, let's get rid of that, because it you know that the counter to that is, wouldn't he want you to be happy? Because it's awful. It's bad enough. He's that that you're widowed. So let's, let's not feel guilty that you're going to go and get some winter sun or even just get a haircut, you know, or make your favourite coffee, not his favourite coffee. Yeah. And I think, is it so important, isn't it? It's part of that journey of kind of moving forwards, yeah, I wanted to ask when I know, with your sort of alone journey, for you, though, that it's almost triggered you to understand that actually you've always struggled with being alone. And I know you talked a bit about extrovert, but I think for many people, they get to a certain age, whether it's a loss of a relationship or a loss of a partner, and they realise this has always been a problem, but maybe they didn't really know it was there, and that was sort of, are you free, are you happy to sort of talk a little bit about that journey? Yeah, I'm, I think it's, it's connected to as you get older, you certainly get to know yourself better. And I left home, got married quite young to my first husband. So Adrian was my second husband. And again, when that marriage went wrong, I was, I was only 28 when we decided to call it a day. But it was, it was a place of loneliness, big time, because again, almost all our friends were getting engaged, getting married, having babies. You know, we're talking the mid 80s, so so being striding out into something like a no man's land, and saying, well, this marriage didn't work out, we're going to end it was, was really frightening and isolating, but we we also knew that it was important to be true to who we were and not be frightened by other people's opinions. Even though, when I told my parents, my mother literally said, well, what will the neighbours say. So, yeah, but you know that relationship, relationship has gone very, very well into the future. He, he became such a big part of our family was still that he carried Adrian's coffin, um, my first husband, and he's very involved with me and my children, you know. So he's like a like a family member. Talk about modern families, but it's, it's, um, it's worked, worked in our in our situation, for which I'm extremely thankful, actually. But at the time, being in my 20s and realising I'd married the wrong man, was was really awful, really awful and very, very much on that, you know, Planet lonely. Okay, that's really interesting. Thank you. I want to give you a chance to talk about the group a little bit more, if that's okay, yeah, tell me more about you know. I mean, not only how do people find you, but just what, what does that group kind of, I mean, it's built very, very quickly, hasn't it? And one question I had, actually, just before, I before you start, is, um, I noticed that you got together and did a singing sorry, did a singing event, and I just wondered, was that just a fun thing to do, or was that actually something to do with kind of grief and singing? Oh, totally. So I run Cambridge Widows with two other women now. It's a part time unpaid job for the three of us, and one of the things that is essential is, what is your purpose? It's always a good question, whatever stage of life you're at. But I think what has happened is totally organically, running Cambridge Widows has given such purpose to our widowhood rally. It's, it's, it's a bit like a tiny silver lining that has come from Adrian's death and and the husbands of my two friends who run it with me, and we went, we went off to a day in Birmingham about 18 months ago, which was a choir day for widowed women and men, mostly women. It was a one off pop up choir. It was absolutely brilliant. And for that day, there was a real sense of camaraderie, of solidarity, and feeling like our grief was paused, because, as many people know, when you sing, you can only sing. You've got to really focus on your part, even even if it's a really familiar pop song, which we did three very, very well known pop songs. And so we thought, wow, we've gotta bring this to Cambridge. So we did and we did two this year. Feels like about 10 years of doing this, but we did one in March, and we raised money for Arthur Rank Hospice, which is the hospice here for Cambridge, where many of our husbands and partners were looked after as were we as a family. And then we decided it was such a healing and restorative and fun thing to do, we would do another one, which we did for Hospice UK in October. And this time we had fifty six people who came. Five men came. It's always, it's one of those things where it's a bit like book groups, it's just full of women, and you get few men popping up and it, yeah, one of the people who came said, it's probably the most fun day I've had since my husband died. And you know the joy that that gives widowed women to be together. This time we did a meal at the end of the day, and yeah, there was music, there was, at one point, we all got up and danced in the style of our dead husbands. That's a fantastic idea, which was hysterically funny. So we may be the most heartbroken collection of people imaginable, but we also can really, you know, pull out the black humour. And, yeah, so, so, yeah, no, the choir is amazing, so we'll do it again next, next year, but it's a lot, a lot of admin, but any, anybody's welcome to come wherever you are in your journey of being widowed. I don't like that word journey very much, but yeah, whether you whether you've been widowed a few months or 15 years or more, you're very welcome and just come and sing for the day, and you don't need to be able to sing. That was the other thing. Our choir leader she's a real genius at getting people together who believe they can't sing or have got she does a lot with the Stroke Association, so people who are dealing with stroke recovery. Her name is Sophie Garner. She's incredible at doing pop up choirs, and I'm really, really grateful. She's, she loves working with us. She's She sees it, you know, bless her, she sees it as a total privilege to spend the day with a bunch of widows. Aw, that's that's so, so amazing. I know I could carry on talking to you, and I've got so many other questions I want to ask you, so I might have to have you on again another time. But just to kind of, you know, draw this to an end, I have three questions that I always ask everybody who does this podcast. So what do you think and this is a really, I feel this is a tough one for me to actually ask you, let alone a tough one to maybe answer. But what do you think is the biggest positive impact that going through this time, getting to kind of as okay as you are now, has has been what's the biggest for you. Oh, work, meeting, working, having fun with other widows without doubt. So what I would say, and that's when I first had children, I went and found other parents to try and figure out how to raise children. I think it's a bit of a Judy thing. I kind of get hit by a life stage, and I need to find my tribe. So find your tribe without doubt, that's really lovely. Okay, and was there a book, a film or a piece of music in anywhere in this journey that that you kind of been your go to piece of art? yeah, they're amazing, you know, dip into them, but I think if they're not working for you, don't feel guilty about putting it away or give it to somebody else. The madness of grief is really good in those early stages. Reverend Richard Coles, who churned out that book within the first year of his partner dying, and then for really practical good grief tips, I always love Julia Samuel's work. She's got a great podcast as well called Good Grief, or I can't remember the name of it anyway, Julia Samuels This Too Shall Pass, amazing. Music, Everlasting Love, The Love Affair was, was amazing, and I found myself often singing The Proclaimers, I'm on my Way, because there's a great line in it, which is, I'm on my way from misery to happiness. So that that speaks to me. Film I just watched one the other day, A Man called Otto, a widower, which was absolutely there for, you know, big box of tissues, but really spoke to me. And sometimes it's like I said, probably the start of this, you have to face the pain. You have you have to. And that was a that was a way of outcome, the tears. They wash everything. They rinse you. So, yeah, do you know that's so interesting because I watched it two days ago as well. Wow. Yeah, my son and I, my son and I watched it because I read the book, which is A Man Called Ove a few years ago, and just absolutely loved it. And, I mean, I thought Tom Hanks, you know, did it absolutely perfectly. But it is a beautiful film, isn't it? Just yeah, watching his journey, and yeah. And also, I think the judgment, you know, the judgment that people made about him in the beginning of the film, and then as you get to know him through the film, and you understand, you know, some of his behaviours and actions, and yeah, I think, I mean, I loved the book and I love the film, yeah, it's a wonderful one. And I guess the kind of final piece here is, you know, if somebody is watching today, and you know, maybe they've lost a partner and they're just struggling, what's something that they could do right now? I know you mentioned earlier about going outside, but you know, what's the thing they could do right now that would help them feel a little better? Well, visit cambridgewidows.com. I would say that. But we do have resources there as well. So even if you're not within reach of Cambridge or Cambridgeshire, there's lots of resources there. And yeah, you can always get in touch with me. And you know, we, we have, we do talk to people on the phone. We zoom people if they need it. But, yeah, don't, don't suffer in silence. Doo do that brave thing and reach out, and it might start with just making a cup of tea or standing outside, but, yeah, do get in touch cambridgewidows.com Do you think this is something you might take into other towns and cities? Well, we're already getting inquiries about that, because, as you said earlier, Mari, it's about geography, and this is about people meeting in person when the online world is astonishingly brilliant, but there's nothing yet, please God, let it never be the case that beats human in person contact. And that's very, very much part of the DNA of Cambridge Widows. So if someone's thinking, how can I set this up? I live in Cheltenham or York or something like that. Just, just get in touch, and we'll give you our top 10 tips we've learned the hard way about what works in terms of creating a widow support group. Lovely. That's really lovely. I just, I mentioned it because I was at the gym a few weeks ago and I heard this couple on the mat, you know, a couple of friends on the mat talking, and one of them's mother, one of them's father had died, I think, and the mother was left, and she's saying how much her mother was struggling. And so I kind of did that awkward thing of going over and say, Well, I was listening in on your conversation, and there's a really great widows group in Cambridge. And she said, Oh, my mom's in Bedford, you know. And I said, well, I'm sure she'd be able to travel. But she went, Yeah, she wouldn't travel. And so, you know, that's why I was thinking, Yeah, is it something that you'll take out? I think the model is amazing. I really think it's repeatable, scalable. Definitely. There's two people came last month who were given our website by someone who overheard them on the train, who knew about us and turned around and said, Oh, please forgive me for eavesdropping, but I can hear what you're talking about. And I don't know if you've heard of Cambridge Widows, and I mean that just makes my heart absolutely sing, that just that organic process of human to human, person to person kindness. How lovely you know that I get to inhabit that kind of world was quite a high price to pay to get to get into this world, but here I am, yeah, and it, and it sounds like you're at least making the most of it. As you said, with all the skills that you already had, you're saying, okay, I'm here. I'm going to face the darkness, and I'm going to, like you said earlier, bring out that silver lining. Judy, thank you so much, because I really appreciate it is still a difficult topic for you, and I appreciate that you not only sharing it with me, but with with anybody else who wants to listen. Obviously, all of the links to Cambridge Widows and all of your contact details and the books and everything that you've referenced will put into the links in the notes for the podcast so that people can find them. But I just want to say I really appreciate it, and thank Thank you for inviting me. I've you very much. really I always love talking with you, Mari, and I think this topic is so valuable, and I hope it is a wild success for you, but more importantly, for everybody else who finds finds this. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to my Alone and Rising podcast. I would really like to ask you a favour. I'm currently researching this topic for a book, and it would be great if you would be happy to share your story of being alone. I have a simple questionnaire that takes just a few minutes to fill in and is completely confidential. I've been incredibly grateful, and you might even find that you'd like to offer to come on the podcast and talk about your story. Either go to www.aloneandrisingquestionnaire.scoreapp.com, or you can find the link in the show notes or on my profile on LinkedIn. If you have enjoyed this episode, please do subscribe, review it and share it with anyone that you feel would benefit from understanding that alone does not have to be lonely. You can also sign up to my mailing list, and you'll receive blogs and updates on how the book is coming along. I hope our exploration into the power of being able to be alone with yourself has given you some valuable insights. And if you aren't there yet, take heart. It is just a first step. Remember to take time to connect with yourself. It is the best way to create a future that you love. Again, thank you for listening and until next time, take care of yourself so that you, too can be alone and rising you.